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tv   New Day Sunday  CNN  April 6, 2014 3:00am-5:31am PDT

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breaking news for you on this sunday morning. thank you for spending time with us here. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. we want to welcome viewers to our special breaking news coverage of missing malaysian airlines flight 370. we are beginning with two major breaking developments that happened overnight, including startling new details about the jet's possible path. a senior malaysian government official tells cnn that flight 370 may have been flown on purpose along a route designed to avoid radar detection. >> look at this new map we put up for you. comes from a new analysis of radar data. this new flight path does that
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shows the plane flew north of indonesia and around indonesian air space after it made that mysterious left turn we were talking about. investigators reached this conclusion after reviewing radar trap data from neighboring countries. >> on to our second big development a british naval vessel is now rushing to the area where a chinese ship reported twice picking up signals underneath the surface. it is due to arrive in eight hours. >> a brief signal that lasted 90 seconds were about a mile apart and would be consistent with the flight recorders. in the meantime, we need to let you know that an australian ship, the "ocean sheed" picked up a separate acoustic noise. authorities are treating all of these reports with caution. >> this is an important and
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encouraging lead. of one which i urge you to continue to treat carefully. >> well, let's dig in to the new information from a cnn source that flight 370 may have deliberately skirted malaysian radar. nic robertson. nic, how important is this new information to the investigation? >> it's very significant, victor. what we have known until now is that the aircraft took off, flew towards beijing, made that mysterious left-hand turn and the question always being, was there some kind of mechanical issue that made it take that left-hand turn. it flew back across the malaysian peninsula, but now we've had that missing part of the aircraft's path described to us by the senior malaysian government official. the aircraft then flew around the north of indonesia intent n intentionally avoiding the radar
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detection and avoiding air space all before the north before it turned south and flew down to the south china sea where the search vessels are looking for the debris and the flight data recorders right now. this is very significant because it gives investigators a degree more knowledge and information about what was happening onboard that aircraft. we've been told all along that whoever had taken control of it, whoever was at the controls knew how to fly this aircraft. knew how to fly it well. this is more information that points in that direction. but added in now is the idea that whoever was flying was intentionally, on purpose, trying to avoid detection. now, that's going to tell investigators the mindset and potentially give them clues as to who was at the controls there. victor, christi? >> nic, does this take off the table, you know, this new route, mechanical problems altogether or is that something they still consider?
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>> that's not what investigators are telling us at the moment. they're not saying it removes anything. what the indications are here is that we've known that they were looking at the possibility of sabotage, hijack person, personal or psychological issues. this appears to be directing experts now to look at this and say, okay, whoever was flying this aircraft was doing it intentionally, they had a purpose, they were trying to fly around radar space, avoid detection and then flew to a remote place in the indian ocean. it looks like the aircraft was in tact and not a substantial mechanical issue. that it was intentionally being flown on this route to avoid being detected and end up in a very remote place which to maybe psychologically profile whoever was at the controls. was it the first officer, was it the captain, was it somebody else onboard? we know the 12 crew aboard that
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aircraft are still being investigated by officials here. the two most likely who knew most about the aircraft, the captain who knew the most and the first officer second. christi, victor? >> nic, thank you. joining us to discuss the latest twists and turns former inspector general with the u.s. transportation department mary schiavo and a former naval oceanographer and mary o'toole. >> let's start with the new information, the government official tell cnn that it flew around indonesia skirting the northern coast possibly to avoid radar detection. mary, when we spoke yesterday i asked you about, actually, nic robertson reported tuesday that a malaysian official determined
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the hard left turn was an intentional act. with this new information, does this new info give more credence to that turn and the actions inside the cockpit being a criminal act? >> well, it certainly helps provide an explanation for two things. not only why the route could have been so erratic taking several turns to several different way points. it also helps explain there was a mystery, no one was saying what radar showed and quite a bit of discussion and concern why indonesia wasn't providing the radar. now, it turns out no radar sightings or the coordinants fromind donesia to provide because the plane appeared to have avoided indonesia radar. two holes and things we didn't know and we were able to fill in the gaps, if all the information
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was correct. >> mary ellen, help us understand the calibration process here because people are probably looking at this saying 29 days in and here we are changing the flight path, again. how do we make sense of this? >> well, it's hard to make sense because the first question that people have is why did it take this long for this very important piece of information to come out and, therefore, is this information reliable or will it change again tomorrow? that's important because people like me will make their conclusions based on the totality now, including this most recent information, which, if it is, in fact, correct, can be very telling in terms of what was going on in the head of the person that was flying that airplane. >> captain, i wonder if this new information, this new analysis realigns this ark that we've been discussing for several weeks now and where the search
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is happening and where it should happen. >> well, victor, i think the biggest conclusion you can reach from the new analysis that was released last night is that the southern route, in fact, is the right place. you know, the big question three weeks ago was, did the plane go north or did it go south? based on the analysis being released now, the southern route is now the right one and reconfirms that the australians are searching in the right general region. apparently it doesn't appear it provides any information on the later portions of the flight that would narrow down the type of search regions where they're concentrating on north of perth. >> so far, mary, no evidence that the pilot or co-pilot deliberately took down this plane. in your estimation, in your experience, is it possible for somebody to do something nefarious like this
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intentionally and leave no trace whatsoever and no reason? >> well, see, i was an investigator and i worked cases for almost 35 years and i have never seen the perfect crime and we used to chase mobsters around the globe. if someone was able to do this, we still have two mysteries. no motive and that's one of the most important things in solving a crime. figuring out what the motive is and then, two, a criminal always leaves a trail. there's always a trace. so far our fbi has told us they didn't get anything off the computers or the flight simulator of the pilots. there's been no information from their friends or family. so we have no motive and no trail. so, if this was a criminal act and it was someone able to carry this out, it's quite a criminal mastermind. >> we want you all to stick around for us, if you would, please. we need to take a quick break here, but do stay close. >> stay with us, we'll have more
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and the breaking coverage of this new information about 370 flying around indonesian air space and potentially the radar detection in that area. stay with us, we'll be back in a moment. ...return on investment wall isn't a street... isn't the only return i'm looking forward to... for some, every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college. our commitment to current and former military members and their families is without equal. this is mike. his long race day starts with back pain... ...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve... ...for all day relief. "start your engines" (mom) when our little girl was we got a subaru.
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so grateful to have you with us here this sunday as we follow this breaking news on malaysian airlines flight 370. let's bring our team of experts back in, mary schiavo, mary ellen o'toole. >> we have video here, the isis the hydrophone that is being used on that chinese ship. here is the video it detected two pulse signals. that doesn't look that sophisticated compared to what "ocean shield" is carrying. is it possible that search crews happened to be in the right
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position, which is not in one of the search zones and dipped this, which looks like a cup on the end of a stick into the water, the shallow water here and they pick up the signal in an area where no one else is. am i wrong to have expected something more sophisticated, captain gurley? >> i think you're asking the right question. is it possible? yes. is it likely? >> i think as they continue to investigate this. the types of equipment are for handheld divers. a short-range detection piece of gear and not really designed to be ultrasensitive for the long-range detections you need for an area like this. for the fact that they're deploying it right over the side over the ocean surface and getting hits a mile apart doesn't add up, but requires
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investigation. they have the "echo" headed to the area to see if this is real or one of the go signals that you sometimes chase around the ocean. >> we were skeptical yesterday, i think everybody was, when we heard about this. we knew this was coming from chinese state agency but there is a reporter onboard the ship and this is what she had to say. >> this afternoon, the rescuers have heard the pings every signal and the signals lasted for 1:30. however, the rescuers say that this comes a signal at this frequency is not exclusive for the plane black box, so there is the possibility that those kind of signals are from some other equipment. so, at this moment, they still cannot confirm the signals are from the missing plane. >> okay, but basically what she's saying is that as we said,
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there were two signals within 1.25 miles of each other. so, mary, i wanted to ask you, mary schiavo. one signal that lasted a couple seconds and a second signal that lasted 1:30. does any of that make sense to you considering the fact that we've got chief marshall houston saying this should be a continuous transmission. >> well, it should be. i mean, technically it's possible because if the ship with the receiver was moving around and it also could depend upon where the pinger was, if it is the pinger. located on the ocean floor because there is a short range to the ability to detect these pings. you know, about a mile and a half deep or maybe three-mile radius. so, if the boat with the kind of makeshift pinger detector was moving around, it could move in and out of the signal. so, it's possible and it was moving off the site.
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the pinger doesn't stop and go if the battery was running out. it would be the ship moving in and out of the signal area. it's possible. and i don't think, they also said there is also ocean sounds, but the finger frequency and pulse was intentionally selected not to sound like sort of random ocean sounds. unless a whale has a stopwatch, i don't think so. so, the sound is the right sound. coming in and out of focus is probably what has people wondering. because once you latched on to that sound, you would put the boat right there and not get off of it. not a sure thing, but it's promising. >> mary ellen, let's look at this from a different perspective and different angle. our team had a very vibrant, spirited conversation this morning before the show. two-thirds of the passengers on 370 are chinese. the chinese have invested a lot of resource, a lot of hours and
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money into this search. is it possible, reading the signals of the statements from angus houston and malaysian about this difficult search and in a search area where no one else is searching and wasn't designated for the day this person can put what essentially looks like a cup on a stick into shallow water and hear something or manufacture that to keep the search going now that we know the ping, the battery on this thing is expected to die in a few days or a few hours, possibly, or to say to the people of china, we were the closest, we gave it our best, we hope and fry to get the rest of the world to come and look but they didn't or it is too late? is it cynical to entertain that possibility? >> certainly it is possible, but what you're suggesting then is someone that's extremely
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manipulative and in a very kind of nefarious way basically try to control the investigation and man manipulate to tell people one thing when, in fact, it's the other. and, yet, you can do that with just giving them correct information. we think we hear something. resources are going to stay in place. so, while it's possible, i think that level of manipulation is, number one, it's unnecessary and, number two, if and when that's discovered, the damage that it would do to the trust of the people would be enormous. so, i think we have to look at it both ways. yes, it's possible, but the consequences are dire and would they be willing to take on those consequences? >> captain gurly, what is your final thought on this? >> unfortunately, like everything else in this case t will take some patience and some time. we have seen a lot of
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tantalizing leads, but it takes time to go in and investigate and decide if it's really solid evidence or just another false lead. >> all right, mayor schiavo, captain gurly and mary eleno'toole, thank you for joining us this morning. why some experts say they are more than a little bit skeptical of all of this. what do you think? tweet us or go to facebook, we want to hear from you. hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. good. i hate surprises. surprise! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score. until you're sure you do. bartender: thanks, captain obvious. co: which is what makes using the hotels.com mobile app so useful.
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some of the big news this morning is that australia is reporting they are taking very seriously and giving a lot of credence to these chinese reports that they heard two pulses, two pulse signals in the southern indian ocean in a new search area that hadn't previously been on their radar. >> but renee marsh tells us those readings came from a handheld hydrophone and quick to exercise caution about their reliability. >> christi and victor, we now know more about equipment from the chinese ship when that pinging sound was reportedly detected. the company that made it said divers can use it or use handheld from the surface like the chinese are doing. it does not go as deep as the
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towed pinger. it can go 20,000 feet deep far away from any noise on the surface. from this video, you can see this hydrophone got no where near that because, again, they're using it from the surface on top of the water. now, the reason depth is so important is because you have to be within a one to two-mile radius to reliably detect the pings from the black boxes. the maker of the hydrophone the chinese are using says interference from another device in the ocean is possible. christi, victor. >> renee marsh reporting for us here. renee, thank you. we have new information, we'll go to our live reporter in perth, australia, in just a moment. stay with us.
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good morning to you on this sunday morning. thank you so much for sharing your time with us, i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. welcome to our viewers here and around the world, you're watching special breaking news coverage of missing malaysian airlines flight 370. >> bring you up to speed with two major pieces in the news overnight in the search for 370. startling new details about the jet's possible path. >> a government official tells cnn that flight 370 may have been flown on purpose along a route designed to avoid radar detection. well, this comes from a new
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analysis of radar data that shows the plane flew north of indonesia and around indonesian air space after it made that mysterious left turn. our source says investigators reached their conclusion after reviewing radar track data from neighboring countries. >> a navy vessel is rushing to that area where a chinese ship reported twice picking up signals beneath the surface. due to arrive there in less than eight hours at this point. >> the signals a brief one on friday and a one on saturday that lasted 90 seconds were about a mile or mile and a quarter apart and consistent with the pings from the malaysian airline's flight records. meantime an australian ship "ocean shield" picked up a noise about 300 nautical miles away and authorities are treating all these reports with caution. >> the chinese ship's discovery of those pulse signals was first
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reported by state media. the information was shared later with the australians and they are the ones leading the search in general. >> erin is in perth, australia, why did it take so long for the chinese to share this potentially critical information? >> that's a very good question. the chinese did have a reporter onboard the vessel first breaking the news really to the world. that is the first that the australians, angus houston, the man leading the search effort heard of this second acoustic event and he was then notified via officials in beijing making a phone call. the first acoustic event, however, that the chinese reported, they reported through normal channels, houston said, in that press conference. today he said he met with the chinese ambassador for two hours last night. this was one of the topics of discussion. out of that, he said that he
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concluded that language, language is an issue, therefore, they are pointing a chinese-speaking representative to the joint agency coordination center. but given the fact that china has so many assets in the area, some eight vessels total. you have to wonder why a chinese-speaking representative was not a part of this to begin with. victor? >> erin mclaughlin in perth, australia. we'll continue to have the conversation about between these countries. richard quest now and mary ellen o'tool. richard, let's start with the most recent discussed flight path avoiding radar. does one country know where one country's radar ends and the other picks up? >> yes, they will certainly know where a country's radar ends,
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civilian radar, maybe not military radar because they will be handed over from one country to the next. the moment i saw this map of the turn and then the twist around the top of indonesia and that was on the very first map that we got some weeks ago, that, to me, was always the most telling point moving from mechanical to nefarious. that spoke volumes in the way this plane was flown. we have already been told several times, that the plane had been flown deliberately. the authorities have been extremely careful not to say nefarious and not to say criminal, although there is a criminal investigation under way, but they always said deliberately. the moment you look at that dotted line around the northern tip of indonesia, you start to see just the nature of what's being alleged.
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>> so, mary elen, as a profiler, what is this potential route tell you, what does it indicate to you and what do you say to these reports, the second one now, coming from authorities who say this was an intentional turn? >> well, if the information is correct, i have a couple of observations. if it required an expertise from a pilot, someone flying the plane that knew what he was doing, understood the plane and understood how to fly the plane, then i would assume that that person is also aware of the flight pattern that they're taking and there's nothing else out there. so, his knowledge is either good or it's not good. it's reported that this indicates his knowledge is good, so he's aware of where that plane is going to end. not as though whoever is flying
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the plane wondering where i wind up. based on his skill level, whoever is flying it did know where it would end up and also, it would suggest to me that this is someone once they are flying this airplane is thinking strategically, in other words, his cognitive skills are very good because nuthing to indicate what i heard so far is that the plane is in an erratic position where it's going up and it's going down and to suggest that someone is filled with fear or anxiety or concern, but they're thinking clearly. they are able to manage this airplane. those are the two observations that really become pretty apparent to me if this information, again, if this information is correct. >> hey, richard, let's put this map back up, please. i'm looking at the dotted line here and i see after this plane takes that hard left turn, can we put the map back up? it goes over the malaysian peninsula and then if the new
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map is correct kind of goes around indonesian radar. it does go over the peninsula. so, if they're trying to avoid being detected and maybe they don't have, no alternative, you're the aviation expert, i'm not. another route through this area that they could even skip malaysian radar, as well? >> no, there isn't. if it had gone any further north, keep that map up and you'll see. go any further north and you'll hit thai air space. although the plane was definitely tracked by thai military, we know that, they already told us. there was a rumor they were planning to shoot it down if it entered thai air space. it avoids thai air space. in fact, victor, you put your finger on the biggest scandal in this whole incident. and it is that the plane was able to fly, in my opinion, anyway, it was able to fly back completely across malaysian air space. it was tracked by malaysian
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military radar and nobody thought to send a plane up there to see what was happening. and we are, there are rumors that the pilot took the plane down to 12,000 feet. that's never been confirmed by the malaysian authorities. it wouldn't have made much difference. 12,000 feet, you're still on civilian radar at that level and certainly on military radar. you have to remember, the whole area, the countries involved in this area all have regional tensions of one description or another and the place bristles with military hardware and radar. so, the fact, i mean, look, the fact he, the fact whoever was involved, if they did it, went across the northern tip of indonesia would have not have avoided radar. it would have still been covered and we knew it was still covered by radar. we know that, of course, because we know the dinc distances and
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known path of the flight. >> richard quest and mary ellen o'toole. signals are giving some hope to the passengers' families because they just want answers. you can't help but feel for these poor people as they're waiting for this information about what really happened. we have some details for you, next. ...return on investment wall isn't a street... isn't the only return i'm looking forward to... for some, every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college. our commitment to current and former military members and their families is without equal.
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the breaking news in the search for missing malaysian airline flight 370 this morning is that we have new information that the flight may have flown around indonesia's air space, possibly to avoid being detected by radar. >> now, over the last two days, a chinese ship has picked up two signals similar to those emitted by black box pingers. they still do not know if it came from the missing plane, but a relative of one of the missing passengers said they would "wait patiently" for confirmation. cnn's pauline chiou is following how the families are doing today. >> reporter: christi and victor, the families are aware of the latest developments with the possible pings and many watched the news conference out of australia. but in general the families are exercising caution because so many false leads in the past, with one relative saying, yes, this is a new clue, but there seem to be new clues every day. so, let's just wait until there is some sort of confirmation.
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now, the chinese government is worried about the health and the emotional state of many of these relatives because they're exhausted. they've been suffering, they're frustrated. the chinese government has offered to take any of them to the outskirts of beijing for some fresh air on sunday and also to get some health checks at a sanatorium. some of them have taken advantage of this offer, especially knowing that they won't get any sort of definite data, definite confirmation about these possible pings until monday at the earliest. christi, victor. >> all right, pauline chiou, thank you so much. 13 ships, 12 planes, a huge search today for flight 370. meteorologist jennifer gray is in the severe weather center. we know there is some rough weather in the area, is it helping or hurting -- today's weather, how is it affecting the search? >> not having too much of an
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effect. a tropical cyclone on the west and southern fringes of that search area and carrying winds of 50 miles per hour right around the center and the seas are about 16 feet. moving quickly, though, at about 30 miles per hour. but right where they're searching and right in the middle of that box, the weather is much better than it is right here on the fringes. so, that's good news. we will see more cloud cover, so, we know that we're searching mainly on the ocean surface, which is good news. we're not needing those planes as much since we're looking for that ping but we are going to see a little bit of cloud cover today and it looks like the rain is going to hold off and the other good news, the winds have cooperated over the last couple of days and the winds will stay pretty low as we get into monday and into tuesday and we'll hold steady between 10 and 20-mile-per-hour winds and some areas the winds will be even less. very good news as far as that is concerned because, you know, we have been searching out here when winds are 40 and 50 miles
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per hour and it definitely doesn't help. that's a little bit of a break if you'll call it that when you're out there in the indian ocean, guys. >> jennifer, thank you. we'll continue our coverage for flight 370 in a moment. president obama has offered words of praise there the people of afghanistan. long lines turned out at election polls and polling places despite threats of violence. afghans voted yesterday on the successor to current president harmid karzai. preliminary reports will be announced later this month. the first democratic transfer of power in afghanistan's history. in washington state, searchers are still looking for victims in last month's deadly landslide. we know 29 of the 30 victims have been identified now. but there's still 13 missing. officials are hoping that warmer weather today is going to help their search efforts. all right, here in the u.s. sports fans kentucky wildcats fans have a reason to celebrate this morning, with just seconds left on the clock, that
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more now about the sounds detected by these chinese and australian ships in the indian oceans. possibly these sounds could lead them to the missing flight 370. >> everybody has at least confirmed that that 37.5 kilohertz they are hearing is consistent with those that you would hear from the plane's black box. if they care confirmed to be frm flight 370, it would be almost a miracle. everybody is saying that. i know you're sitting at home thinking, why is it so hard to find these black boxes with all the latest technology we have? well, brian todd explored that for us. >> reporter: it can can descend 20,000 feet below the surface, can detect this sound coming from the black box's pinger from two nautical miles away. but it is a hail mary pass. >> we're asking a big, big ask, you know, it was never designed
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to do this. >> reporter: officials at phoenix international, the manufacturers of the pinger locater agree that these conditions are far from ideal. to be most effective, it needs a starting point, a confirmed piece of wreckage from malaysian airlines flight 370. if they haven't found debris, is it pointless to use this? >> your question pointless is not a good description. it is very, very difficult if they have not found debris to even know where to start. >> reporter: the pinger locater notifications it listens to signals from the pinger ask does not send signals to pick them up. underwater hills or mountains can impede it. >> weather is a big factor. if the boat is doing this on the ocean waves, now you're attacked to this thing and this thing goes up and down and much less stable in the water. >> reporter: the first towed pinger locater was designed in 1976 in the last 18 years, it's
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been used four times in major commercial air crashes. in 2009, it passed right over the black box from air france flight in the atlantic. they failed to find the pinger the manufacturer said because the pinger had broken off from the black box, it may have been damaged. but in three other cases, success. 1996 bergen air crash in the caribbean and the 2007 crash off indonesia. the black boxes were found but the search areas were relatively small. malaysia air is the fifth attempt and still a long shot. >> we have nothing to tlose. >> reporter: an official from the manufacturer expresses confidence saying if that pinger on malaysian airliner 370 is working and searching in the right area, they'll find it. brian todd, cnn, washington.
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okay, so, martin savidge next is going to take us inside the 777 simulator to talk about those pingers and, also, this flight path, this new one and he's feeling pretty confident about it. he's going to show us why. (music) defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed.
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officials coming out and saying, they are putting a lot of credence into these two pulses that were detected near the search area for flight 370 from that chinese vessel yesterday. yesterday had said they weren't sure, they hadn't heard anything and they said this morning they're taking this very seriously. >> also another development overnight, analysis of neighboring states radar tracks from a team there in kuala lumpur says flight 370 quite possibly was diverted around indonesia and not going around northern indonesia but looking at this path taking a path around indonesia possibly to avoid indonesian radar. so, what does this mean? let's turn now to martin savidge and flight simulator instructor. >> have been talking about thing and where it was located.
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i have been skeptical about it until mitchell pointed out to me where exactly this ping was said to have been identified by this chinese vessel and it's really very much on the route that we've been talking about. >> that's right, martin. it's actually just a little to the east of the search area. not far at all. pretty much right on that line. >> if you remember, of course, the two southerly tracks that have been detected thanked to the intercept pings and they have been sort of tweaking that and refining the information over the past couple of weeks. we now find that this location of the pinger is right off of that track. in other words, they were right in the neighborhood. so, i think at least its location gives you a strong sense that they could be on to something. >> i agree. >> the only issue i should point out is that there was also talk of that eighth partial ping and if they determined where that actually came from that would be vital because i believe the
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experts and pilots think that that final ping was probably at the point where the aircraft failed. and if it's true that it did go into the ocean, then that would have been right about that moment, so that pinguid be closest to what you would anticipate to be the final location of this aircraft. whether this really proves to be the answer or not, we don't know. we'll pass it back to you, victor and christi. the mystery continues this morning but getting fluid information coming in and so glad we can share it with you. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. welcome to our viewers here in the u.s. and around the world. missing malaysia flight 370. we begin with the two big major breaking developments overnight including startling new details about the jet's possible path. a senior malaysian government
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official tells cnn that flight 370 may have been flown on purpose. >> this comes from new analysis of radar data that shows the plane flew north of indonesia. here's a look at the map here. north of indonesia and around indonesian air space after it made that mysterious left turn and flew across the malaysian peninsula. our source said that investigators reached this conclusion after reviewing trap data from neighboring countries. >> on to our second big development a navy british vessel is rushing to that area the hms echo is due to arrive in seven hours. >> now authorities say the signals a brief one on friday and one on saturday. the one on saturday lasted about 90 second were about a mile and a quarter apart and they would be consistent with the pings from the malaysian airliner's
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flight recorders. in the meantime, an australian ship, the "ocean shield" picked up a separate acoustic noise 300 nautical miles away. treating all these reports with caution. >> this is an important and encouraging lead of one which i urge you to continue to treat carefully. >> cnn's joe johns is live from kuala lumpur this hour. >> the new route looks like the plane was deliberately trying to avoid radar detection. what does this mean for the investigation? >> well, it gives the investigators something to hang their hat on, i think. it creates an inference for the investigators that can can still be overcome and that someone in the cockpit intentionally took the plane in a direction that skirted indonesian air space. the next question is why investigators would have to ask whether it was done plain and simple to avoid detection by
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indonesian radar. so, this is a piece of information that tells us why the authorities continue to look closely that flight crew onboard flight 370. it points away from the theories that the plane was somehow flying itself on auto pilot and it gives them some reason to ask whether someone who was in the controls of the plane in the cockpit to conceal it from indonesian radar. really something to hang their hat on as they continue the investigation. >> so, joe, does it mean they abandoned the theory that there could have been mechanical issues with this thing? >> i don't think the authorities would say they really abandoned anything at this stage. they have said, though, again and again, in their view right now it's a criminal investigation until the evidence proves otherwise. it's pretty clear from this information that authorities have had it for some time but why law enforcement authorities
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here haven't released that to the public, we have to ask them. >> it has been several weeks, more than four weeks since flight 370 disappeared. why didn't indonesian and malaysian officials figure this out earlier? >> oh, perhaps they did. they've been looking at four different avenues of inquiry. you have hijacking, sabotage, personal problems, psychological problems. it's pretty clear that all of those things remain on the table, you know, at this stage. >> all right, our thanks to joe johns in kuala lumpur. bring in our aviation experts here, mary ellen o'toole and cnn aviation correspondent richard quest. good morning to all of you. >> good morning. >> oh, we also -- >> captain van gurly and former
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naval oceanographer and former inspector general with the u.s. transportation department mary schiavo is with us, as well. actually, i'll start with mary schiavo. some would find reassurance that the numbers are still being crunched and new analysis, but some might be discouraged that it has taken so long to come to this conclusion about the early path of flight 370. what is your view of this new analysis? >> well, the new analysis helps to explain the erratic path. the various way points, if it's correct, it would help explain why the plane took that erratic path, but no evidence of it. it is conjecture and people trying to make sense of a plate full of evidence that doesn't fit any scenario. every scenario we pose has problems with it. they are using this data that they have gotten from satellites and it was never intended for
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this purpose, but in crunching the numbers and make it fit they try various theories and see if it fits the evidence. it's important to do it that way and then see if it fits. you don't want to have a theory and force your evidence to fit it. that's how you come up with the wrong conclusion. you run up a lot of dead ends before you find the right one. >> simon, i wanted to ask you regarding these pings that we've been hearing and the fact that australia is now saying we're taking it very seriously and putting a lot of credence in what is coming from chinese authorities on this. why suddenly they are putting more credence into that. is it possible that they have heard a recording of these pings? i mean, how do you verify? >> i think, first of all, it's important to point out it occurred at two listenings. two sets of pings or rather chirps that they picked up frathe transponder. now, the one concern people have
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is whether the chinese have actually measured the ping and got an accurate frequency or whether they're relying on hearing the ping. you can't determine the exact frequency just by hearing. you need to be able to measure it and analyze it. whether they have done that on the second set of chirps or pings, i don't know. obviously, this is as good a lead they have at the moment and one they certainly need to keep following up. by sending the ideal equipment to get a transponder and a microphone in the deep part of the ocean away from the noisy surface zone, they have a better chance of a clear signal and hopefully the transponder will still be transmitting. >> mary ellen o'toole. a few moments ago mary schiavo said she never heard or saw the perfect crime and now 31 days into this mystery and no
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evidence and no strong leads yet potentially, is this possibly a perfect crime? have you seen one and could this be it? >> i have never seen a perfect crime and, after all almost 35 years in law enforcement, i totally agree with mary. there is no such thing. there are indicators along the way, there are red flags. people make mistakes. so, there will be, if once this is resolved and hopefully it will be, we'll see that here is where this individual made mistakes. and i think what really becomes important, though, is this. if this was intentionally done, if this was preplanned and someone is very strategic and someone is very skilled, we're not looking for the boogie man here. we're looking for someone that is going to come across in their background investigations as being very sound. someone that seem toz be ves to
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normal and someone that just seems to be a nice person. a father, a brother, a mother. we're not looking for someone here that is going to pop up and everybody looks at him and says, that was a creepy off putting person. i think that becomes important, but, still, a very normal-appearing person would have made mistakes. in my opinion, no question about it. >> we're down to the wire with these pingers and how long they may continue to emit a signal. richard quest, we have this other new development this morning about "ocean shield" it detected some sort of acoustic noise and that was 300 nautical miles away from this new search area where the chinese said they heard something. how do you manage a search like this? i mean, does this just muddy the focus? how do we have enough, do we have to bring new resources in? >> well, listen to he said last
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night. "ocean shield" stays with its own acoustic event once it determines once and for all it is relevant. if is not relevant, it moves down where "haixun 01" is. to answer the point about why this is so significant, it has to be seen pieces of the jigsaw which came together last night, christi. it wasann't just the pingers an just the two detective acoustic events. at the same time, they have refined the satellite data. they now believe they have a better idea where in the southern corridor the actual plane will have entered the water. to quote angus houston from last night. the area is in the highest probability, bring the map up
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and you'll see where i'm talking about. the southern part of the area, pretty close to where "haixun 01" is operating. that is is why we are so interested in the two encounters that have taken place. they are at the lower part of the pink boxes just about where the pulse was detected. that's why so many resources being pulled into that area where they heard the double acoustic event. >> we will talk about those resources. we want everyone to stay exactly where you are. we'll pick up this conversation on the other side of a break and talk about skepticism. a healthy degree of skepticism about those things. >> hope is good, no doubt about it. hoping for these families, first and foremost. still so little that has been confirmed. we'll have the latest for you, stay close. >> while the best brains and the
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this morning we were contacted by the chinese authorities and advised that "haixun 01" we detected the signals for 90 seconds within just two kilometers of the original detection. this is an important and encouraging lead, of one which i urge you to continue to treat carefully. breaking news on the search for missing malaysian flight
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370. a source tells cnn that that plane may have been trying to avoid radar detection intentionally by skirting the coast of indonesia. the hunt for the plane's black boxes. >> chinese search crews said they detected two pulses that matched the frequency of the digital flight data recorder pings. british naval vessel is en route right now to investigate. let's bring in our panel of aviation experts back in. i want to start with captain gurly, knowing what we know about the methods used by the chinese and the areas that the chinese and the australians picked up thesa kooe acoustic e and the flight path of the indian ocean, is there one of these acoustic events that you have a stronger feeling about than the other? >> well, victor, i think right now all of them, i would put in the same category of wait and see. one of the things that would give me more confidence on the
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chinese reports if we had more technical detail on what they measured. how they determine what the frequency is, which wouldn't match. but until we know how they measured that or estimated that, i'm a little skeptical and also other things with the signal parameters. how often it repeated and how wide was each pulse. what they should measure with the equipment and in fact we're on the right thing. until then, one more lead we need to run down because up until now they have heard at different times. we need to have more details until we can confirm what we heard. >> let me go to simon on that. we know they heard something for
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90 seconds. is that enough time, simon, you know to establish solidly that would match a black box emission? >> as our previous speaker said, it depends entirely on what they're using to measure. if they've got proper reporting equipment to determine the frequen frequency, then they have enough information to determine a pinger. that could be a number of sources, the most likely source is the black box, but that's not unique. detecting equipment in the water, as well. but, if it's purely listening through hydrophones and listening through microphones effectively with ear phones and then saying it sounds about right, you get similar chirps from dolphins and orcas. so it could be the black box sitting on the sea bed which
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would be fantastic because it means we can hone in to a five to six-square-mile search. which goes from impossible to the probable. until we get that confirmation, we can't confirm that "echo" will help that. >> some skepticism last night at that news conference from one period of hearing these pings or this acoustic event and then on saturday another and he said that he would have expected a continuous sound. could that possibly not be this continuous acoustic event as they described it, being attributed to the battery dying. when a battery dies on a pinger on a black box, does it go in and out or when it dies it's done? >> no, the skepticism or at least the comment that the air chief marshal made, basically
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talking about the fact they're intermittent. because of the nature you played earlier the pinging noise and because of the nature of it, it repeats and repeats and repeats. it doesn't suddenly just stop or it doesn't drift in and out. our understanding of what happens is that this can can, you can often, you can often, it can often cease to make that noise either because of wave action or because of the boat motion or any of those sort of reasons. and that's why he said it was so important to go back and have another listen to make sure to see if they could find it, again. in terms of the battery, our understanding of that from the company that makes the machines is that the pinger doesn't just stop. it's not like a light switch and doesn't do what you just suggested, stop and then start, stop and then start. it is sort of a gradual fade. the signal gets weaker and
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weaker and weaker. obviously, then, if you add in wave movement and you add in extraneous circumstances, then that might give the appearance or the effect of it cutting in and out. >> all right, richard, thanks. mary ellen o'toole and mary schiavo, thank you for joining the conversation this morning. we'll continue to talk throughout the day. all morning as we have been talking about the device that the chinese used, they say it enabled them to hear the pulse signals. something, if you look at it, really does not appear to be too sophisticated. >> clearly this hydrophone does not go as deep as the towed pinger. >> we'll take a closer look at this sonar, next. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo!
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24 minutes past the hour right now as we continue our coverage of the missing malaysian plane. this morning new information, flight 370 may have flown around indonesia's air space. possibly to avoid being detected by radar. this is a new flight path that they've calibrated. >> over the last two days, a chinese ship has picked up two similar signals to those emitted by black box pingers. but they still don't know if it came from the missing plane. so, let's talk about a black box more and actually show you one. we had this one here in studio
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courtesy of a company in south florida. and, of course, this holds the hundreds of parameters, some more than several hundred, but more than 1,000 parameters about the technical elements of a flight. this will tell investigators exactly what happened, technically on flight 370. you see that grayish cylinder on the front. that's the pinger that we've been talking about. that is what is emitting this signal that we were talking about, up to two nautical miles some estimate. they are waiting to hear that sound. the model on the battery that was on 370 lasts for 30 days give or take. we are right at that threshold, that battery could die very soon. >> some people have been skeptical, so have you. we have heard it on facebook and twitter. you're skeptical about the two pulses detected by this chinese team, but australian authorities saying we are putting more credence into this than yesterday. >> those readings came from a
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hand-held hydrophone and experts, well, they are quick to exercise caution about their reliability. renee, good morning. >> well, christi and victor, we now know about equipment used on the chinese ship when that pinging sound was reportedly detected. we spoke to the company that makes it and they tell us divers can use it or it can be used handheld from the surface, like the chinese are doing in this video. but, clearly, this hydrophone does not go as deep as the towed pinger, what crews are using aboard the ship "ocean shield" it can go 20,000 feet deep far away from any noise on the surface. from this video, you can see the hydrophone got no where near it because, again, they're using it from the surface, on top of the water. the reason depth is so important is because you have it be within a one to two-mile radius to detect the pings from the black boxes. one concern is false positives.
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the maker of the hydrophones also says interference from another device in the ocean is possible. christi, victor. >> renee, thank you. we're going to look further into senchl new developments this morning in the search for flight 370. will they point investigators, finally, to this missing plane, especially for the sake of these especially for the sake of these families?♪ [ cellphones beeping ] ♪ [ cellphone rings ] hello? [ male announcer ] over 12,000 financial advisors. good, good. good. over $700 billion dollars in assets under care. let me just put this away. [ male announcer ] how did edward jones get so big? could you teach our kids that trick? [ male announcer ] by not acting that way. ok, last quarter... [ male announcer ] it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ♪
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half past the hour right now, i hope sunday has been good to you, i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. watching cnn's special breaking coverage of missing flight 370. startling new details about the jet's possible path. this is from the senior
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malaysian government official and that official tells cnn that flight 370 may have been flown on purpose along a route to avoid radar detection. >> this comes from a new analysis of radar data that shows the plane flew north of indonesia and around indonesian air space after it made the mysterious left turn we were talking about and flew across the malaysian peninsula. >> a naval vessel is rushing to the area where a chinese ship reported picking up twice electronic signals beneath the water there and an australian ship picked up a separate acoustic noise, as they're calling it, about 300 nautical miles away. >> well, we have three separate acoustic events. two with "haixun 01" and another with "ocean shield" we're treating both of them very seriously. we need to ensure before we
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leave any of those areas of detection that there is no connection to mh 370. we, we will work in those locations until we can say yes or no. >> so, 13 ships and at least a dozen planes now patrolling the search zone today and some of those are headed to that new area where the chinese ship detected the signals. >> erin mclaughlin is in perth, australia for us. it doesn't appear to be especially sophisticated, but we just heard from angus houston that the australians are taking this very seriously. tell us what you're seeing there as the australians try to confirm or to verify that this acoustic event is from one of the pingers of the black boxes. >> right, victor. they're taking this, this is the most promising lead that they've had so far. that, according to houston. so, as you mentioned there, he's taking it very seriously, so
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seriously that they're moving assets into the area to investigate the "hms echo." because of the location houston is saying a team of international experts have received new information about the condition of that satellite, which has caused them to res have the speed at which they believe the speed it was flying. they believe it was flying faster than previous thought. they now think the probable area the plane went down shifted to the south, which houston says is actually pretty close to the area that the chinese made this acoustic detection. that being said, he is urging caution on all of this saying it all needs to be verified and it all needs to be investigated and that any sort of conclusions on this are days away. victor and christi? >> all right, erin mclaughlin,
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thank you so much in perth, australia, for us. we appreciate it. let's bring in our experts. david gallow, cnn aviation correspondent, richard quest. cnn aviation analyst peter g ghouls. peter, i want to start with you about this hydrophone. is it possible this hydrophone which appears to have been dipped in the water at the surface could have picked up the ping from a black box thousands of feet below the surface? >> yeah, hi, victor. it's not impossible, let's put it that way. i had a chat with the representative of the company that builds them and they're looking at it very carefully because they're interested in knowing how likely it is. one of the things we will have to wait and see, but it's not impossible. it's unlikely, yes. impossible, no. >> david, we know the first signal they heard was only for a
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few seconds. the second was for at least a minute and a half. is a minute and a half enough time to distinguish for certain at 37.5 kilohertz they would need to detect for analysts to determine it would be correct? >> hi, christi, depending on which kind of recorder and what they're using, long enough, but hard to know exactly what they had. again, one of these things where we will have to wait and see what kind of data they have. >> richard, there was a report of chinese planes spotting floating objects, not calling them debris. floating objects 56 miles from where these, these pulses were located. do you think that gives credence to possibly this black box being there and why haven't we heard more, seen more of these objects, plural, because we've seen one photograph.
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>> angus houston said last night that they were sending australian air force assets to go and have a look at that. but, of course, you're talking about four weeks since the plane went down. and you've got to work out what the distance in that period of debris be sufficient or would it be further? i think what's really crucial to bear in mind at this juncture is what houston said again and again and again. any credible piece of evidence, whether it's the white pieces of objects on the water or it's what "ocean shield" is listening to at the moment underwater, the acoustic event, or the double pings coming from the chinese must be taken seriously. very seriously in houston's words. it's important. it must be given priority. and what is fascinating now, of
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course, as you've been talking about this morning is that the joint agency coordinating center, the australians, are now having lots of priorities. so, they have to find the priorities within the priorities. and i would imagine the priority, if you like, has to be the pingers because the pingers are on a very tight time scale and they are disintegrating is fading fast. >> peter, the other thing we're watching is this new flight path. the senior malaysian official saying that it seems to be intentionally avoiding radar detection. do you see any reason based on what they have reported to indicate that that flight path still could have been a mech mechanical issue or do you see it the way they calibrated it to be absolutely intentional? >> well, i think, i think these
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are desperate hours. you know, the pingers are slowly dying. the group is desperate to find a lead to find these black boxes. on terms of the path, it does look very suspicious. if this path is accurate, if the malaysians can show us the the primary tracking, which is very difficult to track and it looks as though the aircraft avoid indonesian space and that's been a question from the beginning is where were the indonesians, what did they see? they have been quiet. this starts to answer the question and if they did avoid the air space, it really is a very huge piece of evidence that indicates that something was going on in the cockpit that was
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deliberate and we've long suspected that, but we haven't had the evidence. >> david, when we saw, when we receive the coordinantes yesterday at this time of where they reportedly heard these pulses or detected these pulse signals, those were outside of the search areas for the day. knowing what we do know now about this adjusted path, here it is. knowing what we do about the currents and what you know about this area of the world, do you think that they were right all along to be in this area or was it if it's accurate just luck that they picked this up in this area? >> yeah, i don't know what possessed them to go into that area, but seems this new calculation that i guess they may have gotten it right and they will have to see what pans out after the further investigation of those pings. but it's all pretty interesting. >> all righty. david gallow, richard quest,
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peter goelz, thanks for sharing your expertise with us. still to come, how deep is the ocean? is the next question in this new area. again, talking about this new area where those pulse signals were heard. what does it mean for search teams now? we asked people a question,
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the major development overnight in the search for malaysia airlines flight 370 is from officials saying that the flight may have deliberately tried to avoid indonesia's air space. >> also chinese and australian vessels have separately detected unidentified pulse signals in the southern indian ocean. similar to those emitted by black box pingers, but they still don't know if it came from the missing plane. >> you see that hydrophone that chinese officials kind of dip under to the water there. cnn's jennifer gray in our severe weather center. jennifer, how deep is the ocean where these sounds were detected? >> it is very, very deep. some areas 14,000 feet or even more. let's start on the surface and the area that they're searching is 83,000 square miles, roughly the size of utah. i'll show you these depths and show you some of these features underwater. keep in mind, so little we know about the indian ocean and we
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don't know exactly where it is. these could be off a little bit, but i just want to show you some of the features that we are going to be dealing with. we do know a broken ridge and a plateau in the areas they're searching. take you under the water now and some areas 16,400 feet where that ping is detected. estimated to be about 14,000 feet below the surface. some of the deepest amounts up to 20,000 feet and then you have the plateau that raises up to about 10,000 feet. so, these are very, very deep features. i also want to put this in perspective for you. this is incredible. we picked some of the tallest structures in the world and look at this. the eiffel tower stands at about 1,000 feet. this is 13,000 feet. this is the perspective. you have to stack 10 to 13 on top of each other to equal the depth of where we're talking about the empire state building
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10,000 feet and that still looks so tiny compared to the depth of the indian ocean and mt. washington stands at more than 6,000 feet and you would have to stack two of those on top of each other to get to the depths that we're talking about. this is going to be a huge, huge feat if this is where they are going to have to go look for this recorder. i also want to touch on the weather because we have been watching this tropical cyclone to the west of the search area. it is going to be traveling to the south and to the east over the next couple of days. that ping was heard right here with that little dot is. it is very far away. we're talking acouple hundred miles or so. not have a direct effect and we'll see waves of 16 feet right where that center is, but around it not so bad. we could be dealing with a little bit of cloud cover out there, maybe some off and on showers, guys. overall the weather in this area is going to be pretty decent, maybe a couple swells and we know that that is not a good thing because those ships are
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going to have to drag those devices to hear for that ping. all in all, butter than what we've seen a couple weeks ago. >> jennifer, thank you. >> thanks, jennifer. a lot of talk about the analysis and the flight path and the technology, but let's not forget about the families. the families of those onboard flight 370. they are continuing to hold on to hope. >> and they're what this is all about at the end of the day right now. many of them, much like many of you still believe this plane is in tact with all passengers still alive. >> i think i've come to a realization that for sure the flight is in tact and the passengers are still alive because the sequence of information that we've been given actually all points to that and that was the common theme at the meeting with the families. i believe all the other families feel the same way that i do. 100% greek. 100% mmm...
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. we need to keep at the forefront of our minds the families and friends of the 239 passengers who were on board the flight. speculation and unconfirmed reports can see the loved ones of the passengers put through terrible stress and i don't want to put any further -- put them under any further emotional distress at this very difficult time. >> just cannot even begin to fathom the spectrum that these people have been on of emotions. and in that, we are following a
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couple major developments this this morning in the search for missing malaysia airlines flight 370 as well coming from australia and from malaysian authorities. a source tells cnn whoever was in control of this cockpit when the plane vanished may have tried to avoid radar detection by skirting the coast of indonesia. >> right now a british naval ves is headed to the search zone where chinese crews detected, reportedly, two pulse signals that matched the frequency of the plane's beacons. but there are still a lot of families that are skeptical. cnn's pauline chu has the latest on that angle from beijing. >> reporter: victor and christi, chinese families in beijing are aware of the latest developments with these possible pings. many of them watched the news conference out of australia but in general the families are exercising caution because there have been so many false leads in the past. with one relative saying, yes, this is a new clue but there seem to be new clues every day.
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so let's just wait until there's some sort of confirmation. now the chinese government is worried about the health and the emotional state of many of these relatives because they're exhausted. they've been suffering. they're frustrated. so the chinese government has afrd to take any of them to the outskirts of beijing for some fresh air on sunday and also to get some health checks at a s sanatorium. some of them have taken advantage of this offer especially knowing they won't get any definite data, definite confirmation about these possible pings until monday at the earliest. >> pauline chu in beijing, thank you. "inside politics" is up for you later this morning. >> let's check in with john king in washington. >> good morning. ahead for a change, president obama has a pretty good week so are things looking better or at least less gloom hadmy for his fellow democrats and the mid-terms? a potential problem for
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chris christie that has little to do with bridges and traffic jams. plus, had hillary clinton's advice to women candidates. maybe a hint? see you in a few. catch "inside politics" with john king this morning at 8:30 eastern here on cnn. with the quicksilver cash back card from capital one, it means unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase, every day. it doesn't mean, "everything... as long as you buy it at the gas station." it doesn't mean, "everything... until you hit your cash back limit." it means earn 1.5% cash back on every purchase, every place, every occasion, all over creation. that's what everything should mean. so consider... what's in your wallet? that's what everything gundyes!n group is a go. not just a start up. an upstart. gotta get going. gotta be good. good? good. growth is the goal. how do we do that? i talked to ups. they'll help us out. new technology. smart advice.
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this morning a malaysian official is saying that flight 370 may have deliberately skirted around indonesian airspace to avoid being seen on radar. also, a chinese patrol ship has detected two pulse signals coming from the search area. it is not confirmed yet if they are from the missing plane. >> we do know naval vessels carrying sophisticated black box detectors are on their way right now to that south part of the indian ocean. let's go to kuala lumpur right now, too, to cnn's joe johns. this new route looks as though the plane was deliberately trying to avoid radar detection,
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so they say. so what does this mean from the investigation and where it goes from here? is there a strategy change or shift in any way? >> reporter: in all likelihood they've been looking at this all the time, but this does kree cr an inference that the investigators have that still can be overcome of course that someone in the cockpit with command and control still intentionally took that plane in a direction that skirted indonesian airspace. the question is why. investigators would ask whether it was done, plain and simple, to avoid detection by indonesian array dar. this is a piece of information that tells us why the authorities continue to look closely at the crew on-boa boar flight 370. it points away from theories that the plane was somehow flying on auto pilot. it also gives authorities reason to ask whether someone at the controls of the plane was attempting to conceal it from
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the detection i think of indonesian radar. >> joe, what does this mean as it relates to the theory that this could have been, or maybe not, a mechanical problem? is that ruled out completely now? >> i don't think anything is ruled out but clearly this is still a criminal investigation. the authorities have been telling us that. it is pretty clear from the information the authorities have had for some time. but it does tell us why the authorities have been saying this is a criminal investigation. they've been looking at other avenues of inquiry, hijacking, sabotage, personal problems, psychological problems and all of those things remain in play. >> joe johns reporting for us live in kuala lumpur, thank you, joe. thank you for starting your morning with us. we're so grateful to have your company. >> the next hour of your "new day" starts now. i hope sunday has been good
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to you. we're so glad to have you with us here. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. thank you for joining us of our special breaking news coverage of missing malaysia airlines flight 370. >> want to begin with two of the major breaking developments from overnight. startling new details about the jet's possible path. a senior malaysian government official is telling cnn flight 370 may have been flown on purpose, intentionally, mind you, along a route designed to avoid radar detection. >> this comes from a new analysis of radar data that shows the plane flew north of indonesia and around indonesian airspace, not across the northern area of indonesia as previously thought. this happened after it made that, of course, mysterious left turn and flew across the malaysian peninsula. our source says investigators reached their conclusion after reviewing radar track data from neighboring countries. >> our second big development, a
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british navy vessel is now rushing to that area where a chinese ship reported twice picking up electronic signals beneath the surface. the "hms echo" is due to arrive six hours from now. >> a brief pulse friday and another one saturday were a little more than a mile apart and would be consistent with the pings from the malaysian airliners flight recorders. a separate acoustic noise was picked up 300 nautical miles away. authorities are treating all these reports with caution. >> this is an important and encouraging lead, but one which i urge you to continue to treat carefully. >> let's bring in our panel of experts here. we've got cnn aviation analyst miles o'brien, cnn law enforcement analyst, tom fuentes. >> we are also joined by chip mcchord, retired u.s. navy director of ocean engineering.
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thanks to all of you for joining us. i want to start with tom. what's your reaction to this new analysis and this new route potentially that someone may have been trying to avoid radar detection? >> morning, victor. my question is whether it is really all that new because about the fourth or fifth day into the investigation the malaysian government said that they then had had reason to remove the computers and search the pilots' homes and further analyze what was on their computers. at that time they said that they believed the plane was deliberately flown off its course and so this is just further confirmation that they believe, and have believed from almost the beginning, that the plane didn't accidentally or for some other reason go off course, that it was flown on purpose on the course it took. >> so miles, we don't know who was in control of the cockpit. but how difficult is it to
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figure out how to avoid radar detection? does a pilot know where to fly specifically geographically to be able to do so undetected? >> well, certainly an experienced pilot who had had had been in that region for quite some time would understand where the radars begin and end and where the radio hand-offs occur. so it does take a little bit of knowledge and experience, frankly, to understand all of that. and what's also interesting about this route, as it is laid out, is it appears it goes to the designated way pit points that we use. these arbitrary intersections in the sky that air traffic control uses to direct traffic. makes it simpler than constantly giving people compass directions. you go to the specific intersection. they're all named. and this particular route that is laid out happens to coincide with some of these named intersections. so what it shows it an experienced pilot somewhere in the mix on this. it's pretty hard to get away
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from that conclusion. >> i want to go to chip mcchord next about these acoustic events, these pulses that have been detected, two by the chinese ship, one by the australian ship. we've been cautioned to not say these were pings because they could be false positives. how do you determine had that one or all of them could be false positives short of going 10,000 to 13,000 feet down to look for the box? >> well, if the pinger is still operating and still has enough life in the battery, you should be able to, if you have your system low enough in the water, you should be able to detect it on a continuous basis. not on just a 90-second pulse. when i hear that they were sending one of the ships to that area, it sound like they have some confidence in the report back from the chinese that there's something there worth investigating. however, they also said that they have something worth
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investigating in their area. these guys take a lot of time in determining where to put their assets and had they just don't want to move these ships because it takes a day or two at a time to move them to certain areas and they would lose that valuable search time. so they've got something still to investigate where they were before but they still want to investigate the latest information that they had from the chinese. >> tom, we know the "hms echo," the british royal navy vessel should be there in about six hours. once it gets there -- again, we were watching how the chinese were trying to pick up these signals. they were doing it with that hydrophone. what is had this ship going to be able to lend that will help of give us more of a definitive answer? >> obviously it would have much more sophisticated equipment than a bunch of guys on a small boat on the surface dropping -- trying to drop something into the water to listen. the listening devices on that
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ship will go deeper and therefore won't be picking up extraneous noises from the ship itself or other ships in the area. so hopefully --fy could add one more point earlier about the radar. the asian airports, jakarta, singapore, bangkok, kuala lumpur, are very busy all night long because flights take off from there, not just red eyes but flights take off at that time of day to land during the middle of the day in europe and other destinations. so flying that path around indonesia is also flying around busy airspace over jakarta. >> miles, let me go to you. i have a question from facebook from lynn that i think a lot of people are probably asking. she said, what is to be gained by flying undetected? if somebody wants to crash a plane, how do you prevent that from happening is her question. what is the point? >> well, yeah. you're getting into people's minds here and motives and this might be an enduring mystery.
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there is not a black box in the world that tells you motives. why would somebody want to do something that renders a plane disappeared? that's a question that kind of goes beyond aviation and into the psychology, i suppose. i can't come up with a good, easy answer without perhaps looking specifically at an individual -- i'm hesitant at this point to indict an individual. it still could be a hijacking potentially. but whoever was involved in this hijacking, even though they have said they ruled everybody out in the back of the airplane, somebody had hto tap into a lot of knowledge to make this happen. >> so many unanswered questions. hopefully there's more than two hours of silence on that cockpit voice recorder when it is recovered.
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thank you all for joining us this morning. we're going to have an oceanographer weigh in, too, ask what happens if that british team cannot repeat their findings? do they abandon this area now? [ female announcer ] right when you feel a cold sore, abreva can heal a cold sore in as few as 2 1/2 days when used at the first sign. without it, the virus spreads from cell to cell. unlike other treatments, abreva penetrates deep to block the virus, to protect healthy cells so cold sores heal fast. as fast as 2 1/2 days when used at the first sign. ♪ learn more at abreva.com. don't tough it out. knock it out! fast. [ female announcer ] only with abreva. as a police officer, i've helped many people in the last 23 years, but i needed help in quitting smoking.
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retired australian air chief leading the search effort. stressing how important the pulse detection is but as you heard, at the same time tempering hopes that we could be on the verge of some important answers. >> as we've had had two major developments overnight. first, flight 370 may have been flown in such a way as to deliberately avoid radar detection. that's coming from malaysian authorities this morning. a british search vessel is racing to the area where the pulse signal was detected twice. let's talk about this with the senior manager of metron scientific solution and a former naval oceanographer and cnn correspondent richard quest. >> start with you, captain. is it possible -- and when you look at social media, facebook and twitter, and even our conversations in the newsroom -- is it possible that these sounds
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picked up by the chinese and picked up by the australians are both pingers? you have two there, a cockpit voice recorder, the flat die that recorder and it has been more than a month. could they possibly both be something? >> that's kind of a hard scenario given the distances apart between these two reported locations. based on what i've read and what you are reporting, the ocean shield thinks they might have heard something in their location which is about 300 miles from where the chinese ship thinks it heard something. in all the scenarios where the plane stays intact and then enters the water, you would expect both of those pingers to be very close together. to be spread out over a long distance, i don't know how you could have that happen. it would require one pinger falling into the water, then the other one continuing to fly for 300 miles. i don't think that that is likely at all. >> if they are still attached to these black boxes.
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>> correct. what we saw in the air france 447 investigation is one of the pingers broke off from one of the black boxes on impact and was never found. but again that's part of the localized debris field. i would not expect a debris field spread over 300 miles for any of the scenarios we are talking about here. is there i want to play some sound from one of the family members about what she really seems to firmly believe may have happen here. take a listen. >> i think i've come to a realization that for sure the flight is still intact and the passengers are still alive because the sequence of information that we've been given actually all points to that. and that was the common theme at the meeting with the families. i believe all the other families feel the same way that i do. >> listen, on facebook and twitter, i'm hearing the same thing. people believe this thing landed somewhere and these folks might
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be alive. is there, do we know, any effort or investigation that's looking at the possibility that that could have happened or have they abandoned that altogether? >> i'll take that one. if you talk about the northern corridor, that is being discounted completely on the basis of the satellite. also the various in 17 countries have said the plane did not crash in their territory. you take these southern corridor which is where we are exclusively looking, you are really focusing on a few places where potentially the plane could have landed and the one that sara is talking about in specifics and the relatives talk about is diego garcia, the british base there. we've been told that it hasn't. we haven't been shown any evidence to the effect, but everything that -- you have to
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do two things at the same time. you have to respect the families in their grief and their wish to know what happened and their understandable desire to know that their families, that their loved ones are still alive in some way. and at the same time, you have to balance it with what the experts are telling you about what the evidence, scant though it may be, is showing. that's why the malaysian prime minister described it as the ending of flight mailaysia 370 n the indian ocean. it is why the prime minister says he sympathizes with that view and the prime minister came to the only conclusion he could. but then you balance that with respecting the families' views, and doing what you can, of course, to facilitate those views. >> captain gurley, we know the "hms echo" is headed to the area
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where the chinese ship picked up these pulses. if they cannot detect anything there, does that negate the chinese reports? how long should they check and what happens after that? do they go back to the predetermined search areas? >> that's the great question here. what i would assume is going to happen is when the "echo" gets to the location where the chinese detected their signals, they'll tow the ocean bottom. if there is something there, they should be able to pick it up. it is a very confined area. but if they do not, i think this goes into the category of all the other leads and pieces of scant evidence that are part of the jigsaw puzzle of this search. then it becomes a matter for the search teams to figure out how they weigh each piece against the other piece. the firm i'm with, metron, we specialize how to do those things usie ining mathematical techniques so each piece of evidence gets a little bit of
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weight. when you give the correct weightings, then you know next where to look. it all depends how it matches up with all the other evidence and unfortunately we haven't seen every bit of evidence that the search teams have at their disposal to understand how those pieces fit together. >> gentlemen, thank you both very much. here's an important question that started yesterday and is continuing to be asked -- has china given australia any evidence about these pulse signals ha that have been heard? is there any recording, any print-out from some machine that picks these up? we'll head to perth, australia for answers. defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed.
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21 minutes past the hour. a senior malaysian official has told us that they have some new information that flight 370 may have flown around indonesia's airspace possibly to avoid being detected by radar, that there was an intent here. is there over the last two days a chinese ship has picked up two signals similar to those emitted by black box pingers but they still don't know if it came from the missing plane. cnn's aaron mclaughlin joins us from perth. is there a recording that's been handed by the chinese to the us a australians? >> reporter: the second acoustic event only lasted around 90 seconds which according to chinese media was not enough time for them to be able to
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actually record it but the three people that were on board the dinghy at the time this signal occurred actually say they heard it. that being said, the chinese are acknowledging that this does need to be verified, that it does need to be investigated and they have requested assistance from jack in order to do that. the british vessel is hours away from being able to help in that effort but authorities here are taking seriously given the fact that there were two acoustic events two kilometers apart within 24 hours of each other. also significant the location in line with the new location. experts are saying the plane most likely went down. >> erin mclaughlin in perth, australia, thank you so much. we'll continue our coverage of the missing flight 370 later this morning on "state of the union." >> candy crowley, what are you
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most curious about this morning? >> i think there are two big questions obviously. you've all been discussing them. one is what are those noises that the chinese ship and australian ship picked up so far apart. number two, what are the possibilities since we won't really know what it is until we get more sophisticated equipment into that area. number two, did that plane, as malaysian sources are now telling nic robertson, deliberately fly outside the radar rang of indonesia and, if so, why? i think it's the "whys" that always get us and are probably the questions that are -- have the most elusive answers as this point. but we'll discuss that with our experts. >> looking forward to it, candy. catch "state of the union" at 9:00 a.m. eastern this morning here on cnn. talking about underwater sounds. at the end of the day they really sparked some renewed hopes specifically for these families who just want an answer as to what happened.
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this morning we were contacted by the chinese authorities and advised that harsh wind 01 had late yesterday afternoon redetected the signals for 90 seconds within just two kilometers of the original detection. this is an important and encouraging lead, but one which i urge you to continue to treat carefully. >> that's the head of the joint agency coordination center angus houston talking about 1 of the 2 major developments in the search for flight 370 overnight. the first is that flight 370 may have been flown on purpose along a route designed to avoid radar
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detection. >> a senior malaysian government official is telling cnn a new analysis of radar data shows that plane flew north of indonesia and around indonesian airspace after it made that mysterious left turn we've been talking about and flew across the malaysian peninsula. in the meantime, a british navy vessel is now rushing to that area where a chinese ship reported twice picking up electronic signals beneath the surface. the "hms echo" should be there in about 5 1/2 hours now. authorities say the signals would be consistent with the malaysian airlines flight recorders. a separate ship picked up another noise 300 nautical miles away from where chinese picked up their ping. authorities are treating all of these with caution. >> we have a flight data here on the desk courtesy of a company in south florida. the pings would be emitted from
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that grey cylinder on the front. it's been about 30 days since this would have hit water. question is are those batteries still alive sending out that signal. thanks for starting your morning with us. >> go make some great memories today. stick around. "insi "inside politics" with john king starts now. the economy is looking up as is enrollment in obamacare. >> armageddon has not arrived. >> the president is also inching up in the polls and his party thinks it can make an issue now of the koch brothers' money machine. are democrats dreaming or is there suddenly an opening to keep 2014 from turning from bad to disastrous? plus -- >> i think what you want more than anything else is someone who's also to listen, someone who had's willing to learn. >> is he losing an important ally? hillary clinton sends a

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